The Ochils Mountaineering Club

Hi

On the flog it and cycle question - it would depend on whether my wages raise to compensate! If fuel does goto to £2 based purley on oil price rises that I guarantee that you'll see 30%+ extra added to the cost of stuff in the shops, and a 50% rise in domestic heating bills. That will eat into disposable income leaving very little for the fuel tank for weekends away.

If it gets to the stage when you only use a car for a weekend away once/month then its actually cheaper to hire one when you need it rather than pay to tax/mot/insure one and have it depreciate on the driveway.

To get back to the same standard of living I had this time last year I actually now require a 15% pay rise - this despite the government claiming 3% inflation!!! I don't think I am gonna get that rise!

Nigel

I guarantee that there are plenty of other things you can choose to cut back on first if you want to, Inspector Gadget!
I have much less disposable income this year than I did last year, but my quality of life is definitely higher.

I think that if it becomes that hard to travel for any length of time, some alternative will be developed to make it viable again (maybe to a lesser degree, at first anyway). Not saying it won't get very hard for a while, though. I reckon we'll see the demise of cheap flights sometime very soon too.

Hi
I was up in Orkney last week. Diesel 131.9/lt.
I thought it was noticeable that there seemed to be less traffic on the A9 & that it was moving more steadily rather than trying to belt it.
I managed 1100 miles at 58mpg. (boast, boast)
I was away 8 days & the price at my usual filling station in Edinburgh went up 7p.

In 1973-75 when the price of fuel shot up I remember cars to the hills suddenly had 3 or 4 people rather than 1 or 2. And we re-introduced the bus meets. I noticed at the last pre Christmas meet to the cottage there were 17 cars outside for about 25 persons inside. And I was one of the solo travellers. (guilty m'lud)
AE Robertson got round the Munros a hundred years ago without benefit of a car & Alison seems to do so today. Perhaps she might give us a lecture on public transport!

As for cycling to & then climbing the hills I've done it once or twice and, as i'm sure Lucy would tell you, it doesn't half burn calories.
DP

I've been ebaying gadgets - its been a while since I bought any. My main PC is now over a year old - thats the oldest PC I've ever owned

Nigel

The percentage tax take is not what has been increasing over recent weeks; it's the global cost of oil.

We are in the lucky position of being able to change our behaviour in order to avoid the worst effects of worldwide commodity price increases. For many folk in less well endowed nations the rise in food costs is literally fatal; part of what is driving that rise is the demand for biofuels, in turn the result of our insatiable demand for oil. We need to start adjusting to the new reality of resource depletion, and if by doing so our fiscal policy results in worthwhile healthcare, education, welfare, security, OAP bus passes etc for us all then to me the money is well spent. If it doesn't come from polluting activities, it will have to come off income - I know which I prefer.

I'm not keen on these petitions because they are always one-sided; you rarely get petitions which support a course of action, and it is always the gainsayers in a meeting who shout loudest even if in a minority. I don't think that they should be promoted on our website.

Hi

Agreed on the cost of oil going up, but the tax *has* been increasing with it. The government takes increased taxes because of larger VAT revenues on the fuel, due to increased taxes on north sea oil revenues (the UK still produces 96% of its requirement), and also due to increased corporation tax on the oil companies that have been posting the huge profits.

The net result of this is that the government could afford to knock 10p/litre off the cost of fuel while keeping its earnings from fuel taxation inline with what it expected in the last budget.

To drive or not to drive is, for many not a choice, but a nessesity. I am lucky in that I cycle/train to work, but in November when Scotrail reviews its prices, It will likely cost me 5K/yr to get the train to work - double what it does now - if this occurs, it wont be worth working.

Yes, i'd like lower fuel prices so I can afford to still head out at the weekends, but likewise, i'd like there to still be somewhere to head to (Hostels, camp sites, cafes, village pubs, village shops etc), which there wont be if this carries on forever. No tourists = no facilities which will be hell for the locals. BTW: I am more than qualified to comment here - coming from deepest darkest Devon! Tourism has taken over from farming - since its apparently uneconomical to farm in the UK and cheaper to ship it half way around the world!! Maybe that will all change with the rising fuel prices!

Services provided for 'all' (healthcare, welfare etc) should be paid for by all, rather than by just those that drive. The welfare state in the UK is the biggest pile of tosh going and the one I detest paying for the most - too many scroungers!

100% of so-called 'Environmental Taxes' should be spent on reducing societies drain/strain on the environment. There is a huge amount that the government could do here, but it does nothing - because none of the 'environmental taxes' are invested in things that would reduce the drain/strain that we place on the environment, rather they are all stealth taxes to prop up the economy, while fooling the electorate into voting for the same party again because it tells us that its direct taxation is low. They really must think that we are stupid!

If the government was serious about 'Green Issues' then it would tax aviation fuel to the same degree that it does road fuel. Its rather a joke that you are hardly taxed at all to fly abroad and spend your money propping up another countries economy, but you are taxed in the extreme to holiday in the UK and prop up your own countries economy!

Maybe this winter the Ochils will get some snow - then we can go mountaineering in the Ochils! I think the rising fuel prices may well put the 'Ochils' back in the 'Ochils Mountaineering Club'.

As for promoting on the website, I don't believe that this is a promotion, more a discussion! Signing, or not signing a petition is a choice for the individual to make.

I am still thinking of becomming a tanker driver - wonder if I could top up my tank without anyone noticing

Nigel

A lot of us do still use the Ochils for a fair bit of our hillwalking
and on days when people don't wish to drive far , they are heaving - New year in 2006 was a good example

Whilst i am naturally in favour of public transport , i really think the providers have to get their act together to persuade more people to use it Its fine to say - get the bus if fuel costs are too high , but in many parts of Scotland the response is
what bus ?
and for many people wishing to get a bus to the hills , the response is the same
don't tell me to get public transport when there ain't any

Yup, Alison.
Also, public transport uses fuel too. It's getting more expensive noticeably faster than running my car is (and is quite simply more expensive if there's more than one person in the car, and often even if there's just the one).
If anything's to get a fuel tax cut (or fuel subsidy, even), it should surely be public transport.

Yes indeed, public transport should get a fuel subsidy .
Public transport should be heavily subsidised so that there can be more services .
i believe the Peak District has in the past had a very frequent bus service between the cities and the crags - Not sure why it was taken off
The pubs certainly sold more beer

I am used to public transport and just shrug when a service is late

However , i have known people who are using buses just as a one-off ,to swear 'never again' if there is delay -
Those with a choice need persuading and the marketing has to be strong

Services need to be frequent so you are not left shivering at the roadside waiting , nor are you forced to hurry off the hill to avoid a very long wait if you miss a bus .

It was noted in the Marhofn (Marilyn Baggers journal)that I am a very 'green' hillwalker - at least the author had the sense to mention that in many cases it is out of necessity
Do you really think I would travel as do with the choice of using a car

Lucy is currently showing that one can reach just about any hill in Scotland by bike (with a green conscience and a red bum as it were). I am not sure about her navigation, though (is it not VEERY flat around Land's End? What kind of environment is that for a mountaineer?).

And Dave Scott, didn't he just prove a few days ago that you can even run as far as from Stirling to Fort William in under 24h. So, out and let's get some exercise instead of moaning about petrol prices.

And now I am back to my desk to toil and sweat in order to earn Jim a decent pension on top of his free bus pass.